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Ben K's avatar

I have a less flattering interpretation of people being 'traumatized' leaving cults. They leave an old status hierarchy for a new one - one in which cults and cult leaders are *low status.* It's not about complexity at all. If someone leaves Islam for a new more restricted and simple social circle in which Islam is low status, I predict they'll call themselves traumatized if they lean towards framing things that way. Islamic societies are big and complex things, but that's not particularly relevant.

People don't like having status ripped away from them, at all. Similar story for people getting dumped and then deciding they are 'traumatized.' You invest in something that you subconsciously thought was raising your status and then it gets inverted.

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Spinozan Squid's avatar

In theory this argument could be hard to falsify. Maybe someone says 'Squid, you value status a lot'. I say I disagree, and claim I do not value status very much. The person could then say 'well actually Squid, the fact that you do not pursue status and make a point of saying that you do not pursue status to strangers is actually evidence that you do care about status a lot, because you make it a point to note that your mediocre status is a result of a lack of effort rather than failure'. This argument could be true, but in this world there is nothing I would be able to do to show that I actually authentically do not value status much.

However, these articles have still been cool and good. I think maybe there are three important factors that go into status that are important to parse out.

The first factor maybe is how much esteem you hold a person in based on your values. Some people value intelligence a lot. Other people value wealth a lot. Other people might value loyalty, reliability, or trustworthiness more. Some people might be mostly superficial and mostly value looks. Someone who values intelligence a lot might more naturally think of Elon Musk as high status, while a looks centered person might more naturally think of Kim Kardashian as high status.

The second factor is maybe how your broader social group views the person. If you do not value looks very much, but you happen to have a friend group that all views Kim Kardashian as high status, maybe you end up viewing her as somewhat high status yourself. If you like some mother you met at the PTA, but your mother friend group thinks that she is trashy and low status, maybe you grow to view her as trashy and low status yourself.

The third factor is literal status. In a friend group, the group will create an invisible agreed upon hierarchy, with some people at the top, and other people at the bottom. People will try to be coy about the hierarchy, but it will be there. Society also does this: it is generally universally agreed upon that the McKinsey consultant is higher status than the truck driver.

The tricky part is for me how much esteem I hold a person in (the first factor) has little to do with how my social group views them (the second factor) or their literal status (the third factor). I suspect there might be a gendered difference with this: women are more attracted to status signals in men than men are in women (a woman with a hot face who carries herself like a zero confidence loser will do better dating wise that a man with a hot face that does this around women), and so maybe for the average woman esteem is just more connected to social consensus and status than it is for the average man.

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