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The fact that the safe word is red and the red-colored wristband means something else seems like it's setting up for first time the Stroop Effect will be the subject of expert testimony in criminal court.

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it hasn't been an issue at all at the events yet, cause the audible safeword 'red' is very different from just looking at a wristband, but nevertheless we'll prob change the color next time.

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This is super interesting! This post in conjunction with your “Women prefer more violent porn (and other data)” post raise a few questions for me.

It seems that pre-puberty, playing games with high physical contact between players is super common, and widely considered fun. Games like “Red Rover” (one player runs full speed into the arms of opposing players, then attempts to fight their way through while the opposing team holds them back), “Sharks and Lifeguards” (children sit around the perimeter of a parachute with their legs extended beneath, while “shark” children under the parachute grab their ankles and attempt to drag them under, and “lifeguard” children walking around the outside attempt to drag them back to safety), and a game I learned from Israeli counselors at a summer camp that I think they called something like “pisu kim” (one player tries to physically restrain another from taking a vacant seat across the circle, always resulting in extended wrestling matches and intense struggle), and a few more come to mind, all of which were co-ed. It seems that when we’re children, we have no issue with accepting the joy that comes from the adrenaline rush of attempting to physically escape from and/or restrain someone else. Once we hit puberty, though, we seem to become hyperaware of our body’s sexual capacities, and abandon casual physical contact, relegating lesser, far more controlled versions of that type of activity to private bedrooms with highly vetted romantic partners. The type of physical struggle dynamic we once practiced openly in public without batting an eye becomes a sexual fetish carrying at least some degree of stigma in most communities.

It would be interesting to know if the people who enjoyed high physical contact games in childhood are more prone to pursuing that dynamic with sexual partners in adulthood (CNC), or if an adulthood affinity for sexual struggle is completely independent from a childhood affinity for non-sexual, high physical contact games. It would also be really interesting to know if those preferring to be in the role of aggressor in CNC also preferred being the aggressor in childhood high physical contact games, and vice versa. It makes me wonder if the rise in testosterone and estrogen experienced by adolescents plays a significant role in pushing CNC-prone individuals into aggressor and receiver categories, respectively, or if the gender split has more to do with societal gender norms. After reading your “Women prefer more violent porn (and other data)” post, I would guess society plays a far more minor role than some may assume, because people tend to watch porn that gets them off, not porn that they think society thinks they should get off to (if that makes any sense lol). Since when no one is watching, women tend to gravitate more toward aggression against women than men do, it makes me think women’s preferred role of “receiver” is related to biological wiring (which makes sense when you think about sex and evolution, and how male aggressor/female receiver is more likely to result in a child than the reverse). It makes me wonder if high physical contact games remained common and widely practiced through adolescence and adulthood, would that satisfy our attraction to that dynamic, and reduce consumption of violent porn? Who knows, maybe it would show us how much we enjoy that dynamic, and boost our consumption of violent porn. Anyway, I love your posts! Thanks for always giving me interesting things to think about

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These events sound ethical and well-run as described, but I have mixed feelings about publishing this post. Yes you may help future noncon orgy-nizers avoid pitfalls, if they're as thoughtful and careful as you, but I fear you've also lowered the barrier to entry for less competent/moral actors.

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idk, as far as I know there was only one other cnc orgy group i could find anywhere, but they went defunct a few years ago. Imo it is reasonable to give an outlet for people interested, and be setting the standard in a very clear, safe way.

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Coincidentally, when I got the email for this post, I happened to be reading a Reddit AMA about a *nonconsensual* nonconsent interaction, i.e. an AMA with a rapist. They describe their inner thoughts in significant detail.

https://www.unddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/d3n73/i_am_a_convicted_rapist_released_one_year_ago/

Interestingly, they don't think that they'd be turned on by BDSM or consensual nonconsent roleplay like this. For them it needed to *actually* be nonconsensual.

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Thank you, that was very interesting. I guess few convicted rapists are as verbally skilled as this one (if he is real).

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Nice post. Ive been using wristbands since 2011.

Location..parking is an issue always. Trying to keep the airbnb rental low key with the neighbors is difficult when there are 50 cars parked on the street. Lol

Typically i will have 3 event monitors roaming the event making sure folks are following instructions. Sucks for them no play. And having a clean up crew helps so much!

One way to try and clear up confusion is when issuing out wrist bands, you read the rules and instructions to the guests one by one. Yes it is timely, but in the end everyone will have heard the instructions. This is a better way than assuming that folks actually read..most folks skim. Image characters with the wristband also helps those folks who tune out words. And makes connecting the action to the color. Takes just a min to create this and then laminate them and place into a party folder. Which you use for the events.

Good post. Dont worry about others and lowering any barriers. Pish posh.

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To piggy back on this:

The image characters would be an even more important suggestion if you decide to go with glow sticks or add several more colors of wristbands, specifically for people who are color-blind (including Myself). Although red and blue wristbands wouldn’t be tough to differentiate, if more colors are added it will get harder to make the colors different enough to be able to identify, especially in a darker room. Unfortunately, glow stick lights have very few options and can be harder for color-blind individuals to truly identify, even otherwise “obvious” light differences. Bright blue and red lights can be seen, but glow sticks emit low levels of light, which seems to make differentiating colors harder (for Me, at least).

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I like it that you mention the color blindness. Statistics say 1/10 man has some form of color blindness (red-green to be most prevalent), and from some personal experience (map making), I feel like the percentage that has it a little is even way higher.

But there are enough ways around it - doesn't have to be color coded, what about 1, 2 or 3 bracelets next to each other or partly taped off to be striped?

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How does one balance levels of attractiveness, in addition to gender balance? Or is that a non issue when you don't have to negotiate consent?

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I'm curious as to the dynamics of receiving for straight men. Are there enough women aggressors available to ravage the more sub male receivers? I know there's often a misbalance like this in other contexts.

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There is a misbalance, yes! Rn we're mostly having male aggressors and female receivers, just because it's simpler (tho some of the fems agress upon each other), though men *can* in fact wear a wristband if they're feeling open, just given the demographic structure it's unlikely someone would aggress.

I would like to get the orgy up to a point where there's more crossfire, but we're building slowly.

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Thanks.

My intuitive guess is that a male sub interested in female aggression is far more common that a female dom interested in male submission.

Not entirely sure why this is actually, but if anyone has data on this it'd be you.

Good luck getting to the more crossfire stage!

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Have you considered joining the Bonobo network? It’s a poly/kink community that regularly throws events, many of which are at an extremely convenient venue in the East Bay (lots of mattresses, large multi-person shower, etc.). As a member myself, I would LOVE to attend a party like this!

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Can you tell us more about the experience that led you to believe that women not getting properly rattled was worse than guys having to wait a bit?

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Storagetreasures.com

It's practically a law that every storage unit that goes up for auction have at least 2 mattresses in it, and a lot of times you can pick up mattress heavy units for $10. Obviously you'll need to do some cleaning and like, but after you put a waterproof mattress cover and some sheets on them they're great for an event like this.

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I assume the thrill that people get from ignoring "no" is not due to the phonetics of the word itself, but due to the meaning it has in broader society, and the brain's failure to properly reassign that meaning in the context of the orgy. As such, I'd be curious whether, if someone goes to several of these, they start losing that thrill, as their unconscious mind comes to learn that "no" doesn't actually mean anything in this context.

If so, you could probably fix this by rotating safewords? Run several events in a row with the same safeword, let people come to unconsciously learn that it's meaningful, then switch to a new safeword and people can get a thrill out of ignoring the old one.

If you end up gathering any data on this, I'd love to see it.

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This is amazing if you're comfortable in what you think you enjoy but have never had the safety around you to let go and enjoy letting someone else take the reigns. Good lord I'd kill to find this kind of scene.

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The fact that some women fell under-ravished seems to suggest that you should add a category of "assistant": one could restrain an arm and work on a nipple or neck while the penetrative act was underway. I'm not really into rape, but could imagine participating in that role could be a thrill.

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

A pleasant read :) Thank you for being thorough and explicit on the goings on. Nice to see that happiness doesn't judge.

For CNC practiced safely en masse submission grappling could be a good analog. No stopping until unconsciousness or a tap. Although I'm not sure which one has more on the line.

What would you say the appeals vs risk tradeoffs are for participants? I can imagine an attraction to being pushed to the edge of their comfort, or the symbolism of the act. If the latter I could see the real, societal/existential risk more easily that may be larger than being waterboarded by someone's chest hair (grappling).

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A decade ago I got to participate in one of these in Toronto. It was brilliant, and I came away with one entirely new relationship that persists, in some form, today. It was very carefully vetted for people who could actively communicate, and resolve issues in the moment, and it wasn't an ongoing thing. Glad you're putting these on, and taking such a careful approach.

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