This is interesting, but are the results confounded with setting? You do MDMA in a club. You do ayahuasca with your personal shaman while on a forest retreat in Costa Rica to heal from your divorce. You do nitrous next to a dumpster behind a Culver's. Seems like more than just the effect of the drug is being measured here.
Definitely confounded with setting! It's hard to separate them. This is one of the things I was curious about with the MDMA vs ecstasy distinction, but super hard to disentangle.
True, but the fact that some substances like Ayahuasca and Psilocybin invite much less to misuse than typical party drugs like alcohol or Ecstasy do have an influence on the risk/reward scale.
I did MDMA in a retreat with three psychiatrists under special diet very safely with a collective énfasis on healing. I actually tried MDMA in this setting, have only done it at a party once and was disappointed at the experience in comparison to MDMA in a therapeutic setting.
Poor salvia. Don't take it personally Sally, it's just that most people don't enjoy falling through a tunnel of knives for 10,000 years, nor do most people derive any spiritual insight or healing from it. We still love to read horror stories of college students destroying their dorm rooms while under your influence though💓
Are you open to sharing the data? I study the molecular effects of psychedelics in neurons trying to build predictive in vitro models and would really love to have the raw survey data as a "ground truth" of the cognitive effects I'm trying to predict!
My MIT email is REUVENF, my gmail is the substack username
Hm, I took the survey and have done about ten of these drugs multiple times. I'm now realizing I may have answered wrong in that I did not say that any of these drugs had any lasting effect on me physically, spiritually, mentally etc. But I assumed that you meant like permanent. You didn't ask about a hangover or feeling shitty in the days afterwards, which I think would shift this a lot. I just can't understand otherwise how MDMA/Ecstasy end up so high on the list when it makes you feel so shitty the next day or two.
If you're looking for low risk and high pleasure, but don't care about spirituality, GHB knocks all others out of the park as far as I'm concerned. But the non-hangover aspect is a huge and possibly the most important aspect there. Once I was past my 20s, there is no drug that is worth it, to me, if it's going to ruin my whole next day or put me out of commission.
Surprised that Iboga is so uncommon. High on healing experience but perhaps also risk. It was indeed a looong survey to stick with. Happy to read the results.
Wow, I almost completely forgot about Iboga. It's unfortunate what a double-edged sword that plant is. Such great healing potential, yet such a huge risk as well. I certainly hope that Iboga is subject to more research in the future!
Dumb question. What's the criteria for a drug being psychedelic? For example, I've never seen THC and Alcohol included in lists of psychedelic drugs before, not that I look at such lists though. When I look up the definition online, it seems like all recreational drugs could fit into the category. I haven't explored many drugs myself, so I'm curious to understand from others.
She describes adding Alcohol not as a psychedelic, but to have a 'reference' drug that most people have experience with its effects (so you can interpret a drug you've never tried as "4X more something than alcohol", rather than just being "0.56 something" which is nearly meaningless)
THC is an edge case, I suspect that Aella was working not so much on a criterion but more on a tradeoff of "having lots of substances for comparison" vs "avoid having too huge and clunky of a survey" and THC made it but other psychoactives didn't
i am a survivor from the infamous mislabeling of dragonfly instead of bk2cb from the late haupt rc (rip bro)
bromodragonfly is maybe of of the mostv powerful psychedelics ever, that batch caused peoples arms getting gangrene, haupt died because bromo and i basically saved and shit myself when on the old bluelight.ru forum i readed about the mislabeling incident and especially the dose i had taken which i though was bk2cb.
in that moment i knew i fucked up, since the effects starting to came in like a tsunami, i was eating a pizza and my good buddy zorrin still to this day tell this story of me trying to not be swallowed by a black hole pizza materialized in my apartment, also during the reading of the post i was having an hardcore pain attack because i was thinking im gonna die or my brain will become marmelade, so i started running the stairs to get ou of my condo and it was about 2 degree celsius, pretty cold but i was sweating really bad and in that moment i managed to eat 2 ER xanax 0.50 hoping the trip would be killed by benzos but then i stripped all my clothes, fully naked aside shoes i started running from this hole that was following me and days later people told me that my face was like changing expressions super fast, my eyes seemed empty and my screams for helping me and haupt rc were not comprehensible to the people in the streets.
i remember jumping on a taxi giving the dude at least 2 banknotes of 50 euros asking him to run to the ER because i felt i was dying because a drug i had taken.
the taximan start driving pretty fast and also he went into the er to explain the situation so i was escorted chained to a bed and i had a white sheet of paper which i had copy pasted the bluelight thread, i still hear in my mind me crying because i was chatting a lot of times with haupt and i was sure that the mislabeling happened from the middleman before sending to haupt.
so remember this happened in italy at the time i was heavilty into the RC scene and i was modding LHG/EK before the fbi honeypot and subsequent ratting of "mr.mike" aka dude buying 5 kilos of methoxetamine to deliver to his military base, he managed to rat on w00t, nyarlathotep(me), luckily it was a US thing and i only was a well known member but at the same time in those early days people like alice or kk.pu (bo peng kevin sare you alive) used to send big bags of different chemicals, from old preban 4mmc, to methylone, mdpv,apvp, 4-fa, flephedrone, naphyrone then later debora labs started selling the only 2 great fentalogues "acetylfent and butyrfent". i had a professional micro pipette weighing micrograms and those 80ug blotters were sold 10-20 sheets in 1 hour tops.
But back to the bromo basically midazolam iv saved me but the total trip lasted almost 50+ hours.
Worth clarifying that I'm not 100% sure it's what I took; I got it at a store which claims they can't sell psilocybin legally but that the company uses a "proprietary blend" which would be metabolized to psilocin. I looked up all the users who had tried this particular edible and they said it feels like 4AcODMT, so went with that. (Also no nausea, which is a huge plus for me personally.) Not sure precisely what I experienced, there were little hints of visuals and breathing aftereffects i've had on higher doses of THC before but nowhere close to "tripping"/hallucinations for me. Seems like a good choice for meditation or for sex. Bad if you're feeling sick; it'll enhance all the waves of sensation with that.
The brand was "Seshnz." It tasted *delicious*, much better than edibles normally do.
This is interesting, but are the results confounded with setting? You do MDMA in a club. You do ayahuasca with your personal shaman while on a forest retreat in Costa Rica to heal from your divorce. You do nitrous next to a dumpster behind a Culver's. Seems like more than just the effect of the drug is being measured here.
Definitely confounded with setting! It's hard to separate them. This is one of the things I was curious about with the MDMA vs ecstasy distinction, but super hard to disentangle.
True, but the fact that some substances like Ayahuasca and Psilocybin invite much less to misuse than typical party drugs like alcohol or Ecstasy do have an influence on the risk/reward scale.
Culver's mentioned hell yeah
I did MDMA in a retreat with three psychiatrists under special diet very safely with a collective énfasis on healing. I actually tried MDMA in this setting, have only done it at a party once and was disappointed at the experience in comparison to MDMA in a therapeutic setting.
Poor salvia. Don't take it personally Sally, it's just that most people don't enjoy falling through a tunnel of knives for 10,000 years, nor do most people derive any spiritual insight or healing from it. We still love to read horror stories of college students destroying their dorm rooms while under your influence though💓
Are you open to sharing the data? I study the molecular effects of psychedelics in neurons trying to build predictive in vitro models and would really love to have the raw survey data as a "ground truth" of the cognitive effects I'm trying to predict!
My MIT email is REUVENF, my gmail is the substack username
Beny
Wait, no chemsex tier list? I was looking forward to it the whole post!
Hm, I took the survey and have done about ten of these drugs multiple times. I'm now realizing I may have answered wrong in that I did not say that any of these drugs had any lasting effect on me physically, spiritually, mentally etc. But I assumed that you meant like permanent. You didn't ask about a hangover or feeling shitty in the days afterwards, which I think would shift this a lot. I just can't understand otherwise how MDMA/Ecstasy end up so high on the list when it makes you feel so shitty the next day or two.
If you're looking for low risk and high pleasure, but don't care about spirituality, GHB knocks all others out of the park as far as I'm concerned. But the non-hangover aspect is a huge and possibly the most important aspect there. Once I was past my 20s, there is no drug that is worth it, to me, if it's going to ruin my whole next day or put me out of commission.
I didn't ask about short-term side effects besides mental stability, no
Surprised that Iboga is so uncommon. High on healing experience but perhaps also risk. It was indeed a looong survey to stick with. Happy to read the results.
Wow, I almost completely forgot about Iboga. It's unfortunate what a double-edged sword that plant is. Such great healing potential, yet such a huge risk as well. I certainly hope that Iboga is subject to more research in the future!
Indeed! I attended an academic conference on Iboga once, where the hopes of a third stage of usage together with more research was mentioned.
Least party drug potential of all though, but life altering for sure from my experience. Cognitive boost potential as well in lower dosages.
this is cool, thanks! imo psilocybin mushrooms are among the safest and best
Dumb question. What's the criteria for a drug being psychedelic? For example, I've never seen THC and Alcohol included in lists of psychedelic drugs before, not that I look at such lists though. When I look up the definition online, it seems like all recreational drugs could fit into the category. I haven't explored many drugs myself, so I'm curious to understand from others.
She describes adding Alcohol not as a psychedelic, but to have a 'reference' drug that most people have experience with its effects (so you can interpret a drug you've never tried as "4X more something than alcohol", rather than just being "0.56 something" which is nearly meaningless)
THC is an edge case, I suspect that Aella was working not so much on a criterion but more on a tradeoff of "having lots of substances for comparison" vs "avoid having too huge and clunky of a survey" and THC made it but other psychoactives didn't
This is helpful, and yeah I didn't read all the words. I noticed some other heavy hitters weren't on the list. I assume they aren't psychedelics.
i am a survivor from the infamous mislabeling of dragonfly instead of bk2cb from the late haupt rc (rip bro)
bromodragonfly is maybe of of the mostv powerful psychedelics ever, that batch caused peoples arms getting gangrene, haupt died because bromo and i basically saved and shit myself when on the old bluelight.ru forum i readed about the mislabeling incident and especially the dose i had taken which i though was bk2cb.
in that moment i knew i fucked up, since the effects starting to came in like a tsunami, i was eating a pizza and my good buddy zorrin still to this day tell this story of me trying to not be swallowed by a black hole pizza materialized in my apartment, also during the reading of the post i was having an hardcore pain attack because i was thinking im gonna die or my brain will become marmelade, so i started running the stairs to get ou of my condo and it was about 2 degree celsius, pretty cold but i was sweating really bad and in that moment i managed to eat 2 ER xanax 0.50 hoping the trip would be killed by benzos but then i stripped all my clothes, fully naked aside shoes i started running from this hole that was following me and days later people told me that my face was like changing expressions super fast, my eyes seemed empty and my screams for helping me and haupt rc were not comprehensible to the people in the streets.
i remember jumping on a taxi giving the dude at least 2 banknotes of 50 euros asking him to run to the ER because i felt i was dying because a drug i had taken.
the taximan start driving pretty fast and also he went into the er to explain the situation so i was escorted chained to a bed and i had a white sheet of paper which i had copy pasted the bluelight thread, i still hear in my mind me crying because i was chatting a lot of times with haupt and i was sure that the mislabeling happened from the middleman before sending to haupt.
so remember this happened in italy at the time i was heavilty into the RC scene and i was modding LHG/EK before the fbi honeypot and subsequent ratting of "mr.mike" aka dude buying 5 kilos of methoxetamine to deliver to his military base, he managed to rat on w00t, nyarlathotep(me), luckily it was a US thing and i only was a well known member but at the same time in those early days people like alice or kk.pu (bo peng kevin sare you alive) used to send big bags of different chemicals, from old preban 4mmc, to methylone, mdpv,apvp, 4-fa, flephedrone, naphyrone then later debora labs started selling the only 2 great fentalogues "acetylfent and butyrfent". i had a professional micro pipette weighing micrograms and those 80ug blotters were sold 10-20 sheets in 1 hour tops.
But back to the bromo basically midazolam iv saved me but the total trip lasted almost 50+ hours.
I think I could be extremely helpful in this area of study (at least hear me out)...
Awesome. Would like to see this survey expanded to all drugs, including popular pharmaceuticals.
I've yet to do any of them, but I'll keep this in mind when choosing what to try first.
A super
I approve this message
Proud to be one of the ~50 4AcODMT reporters lol
Worth clarifying that I'm not 100% sure it's what I took; I got it at a store which claims they can't sell psilocybin legally but that the company uses a "proprietary blend" which would be metabolized to psilocin. I looked up all the users who had tried this particular edible and they said it feels like 4AcODMT, so went with that. (Also no nausea, which is a huge plus for me personally.) Not sure precisely what I experienced, there were little hints of visuals and breathing aftereffects i've had on higher doses of THC before but nowhere close to "tripping"/hallucinations for me. Seems like a good choice for meditation or for sex. Bad if you're feeling sick; it'll enhance all the waves of sensation with that.
The brand was "Seshnz." It tasted *delicious*, much better than edibles normally do.